Seymour talks about accountability. It is the politicians that have got us into this mess with nil accountability.
Seymour has a degree in Electrical Engineering. It has been pointed out to him that wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy. He will not engage, he will not make himself accountable. A dead loss.
“wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy.”
Neither do hydro-turbines, that is why we have inverters, voltage regulators and power factor correction capacitor banks.
“Seymour has a degree in Electrical Engineering”
Clearly you don’t and have no idea what you are talking about.
Clearly you don’t and have no idea what you are talking about.
Very poor use of the English language.
Hydro power house/turbines do not have inverters though they do have governors.
You clearly do not know how electricity is generated nor how supply meets demand.
The NZ grid is synchronous. Wind turbines are asynchronous.
We can expect serious blackouts ahead, especially through the lower North Island, maybe as early as next winter.
I stand by my statement, wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy.
After 28 blackouts Mexico tracked the problem to wind farms. Mexico has shut down their wind turbines. A French company offered to build a wind farm in the Gulf. Mexico responded, do what you like, you will not be connecting them to our grid.
Wind turbines produce useless harmonics termed in the industry as dirty energy. They can’t boil a jug.
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cunning5tuntsaid:
I will assume from that comment that your English grammar and comprehension is always perfect. I highly doubt it. I could go and search for such examples but then I would just be a petty hypocrite like yourself.
By what chance? I found a clear example in your response which also proves you do not understand what you are talking about.
“I stand by my statement, wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy.”
50 Hertz or 50Hz is mains frequency, the nominal frequency of the oscillations of an alternating current (AC). It is in no way a measure of energy.
I’m not a fan of wind turbines or Seymour, but a generator is a generator, by what means the shaft of that generator is rotated makes little difference. A generator rotating at 3600 rpm powered by a diesel engine, steam turbine, hydro turbine or wind turbine will produce the same kVA and frequency when connected to a load.
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Brian Johnstonsaid:
You are correct, it is irrelevant whether a turbine is driven by hydro or steam. You do state an RPM of 3600, American?
That is the very point a generator is required by law to rotate at a fixed speed and to within 0.1% of that speed.
When the load increases eg when a city rises for work and switches on jugs and toasters for breakfast – and a fan heater during the winter – the increased load has the effect of slowing the turbine. The operator must open the sluice gate or increase the steam to maintain the exact speed.
Operating an electricity grid is an exact science and it has been said that the electric grid systems of the world are the most complicated thing man has made.
A wind turbine operates at all sorts of speeds according to the whim of nature, producing all sorts of harmonics none of which are 50Hz. (60Hz USA.) They produce useless dirty energy and are messing up the grid.
The next aspect to consider is that all power stations on a grid have to produce the same 50Hz at the exact same time thus the term Synchronous grid. A wind turbine is Asynchronous.
Now we see why Mexico shut down the wind farms, they don’t work.
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cunning5tuntsaid:
You are still wrong Brian. I suspect you watched a couple of videos and believed all you heard and saw. The same issues that are presented with a hydro power station is also present for wind turbines. Do you seriously think it is possible to just slow or stop thousands of litres of water running down a penstock? If the disconnect the generator from the turbine the turbine over speeds and destroys itself. Disconnect the generator from the grid and the same will happen and the generator winding insulation will breakdown and the generator also destroyed. So power stations have more than one generator running. They have them running at different speeds to control output when the grid is loaded or unloaded. (They can also use excess generation to pump water back up into the reservoir.) So the same is possible with wind turbines and as there are generally more in a network it is easier to control loading vs generation. The issue above is the main reason why they use gas and coal fire powered stations at peak times to meet maximum demand.
In the most typical design of a wind turbine the blades are attached to an axle that runs into a gearbox. The gearbox, or transmission, steps up the speed of the rotation, from about 50 rpm up to 1,800 rpm. The faster spinning shaft spins inside the generator, producing AC electricity. Electricity must be produced at just the right frequency and voltage to be compatible with a utility grid. Since the wind speed varies, the speed of the generator could vary, producing fluctuations in the electricity. One solution to this problem is to have constant speed turbines, where the blades adjust, by turning slightly to the side, to slow down when wind speeds gust. Another solution is to use variable-speed turbines, where the blades and generator change speeds with the wind, and sophisticated power controls fix the fluctuations of the electrical output. A third approach is to use low-speed generators. Germany’s Enercon turbines have a direct drive that skips the step-up gearbox. An advantage that variable-speed turbines have over constant-speed turbines is that they can operate in a wider range of wind speeds.
Networks use Auto Under Frequency Load Shedding to control network frequency. The need has become greater for the ability to load shed effectively due to ever increasing demands for electricity at peak periods and energy saving devices during off peak periods. It has also become more difficult due domestic solar installations with grid tie systems. Sudden loss of sun equals a sudden drop in output, only really an issue when it is one large bank of cloud moving in, not when it is broken up cloud moving through.
It used to be in NZ that we relied on controlled street lighting and domestic water heating for load shedding. Now on certain networks they have certain industries that work with the network to switch on loads for shedding purposes.
Harmonics are easily controlled at point of generation and where that energy is consumed. I used to install load correction capacitor banks and filters in Canterbury factories and dairy pump sheds when Electricty Ashburton set out certain requirements for consumers regarding harmonics production on their networks. My night school tutors worked for the Network and one was a harmonics specialist.
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Brian Johnstonsaid:
I have an electrical background. I suspect you were installing power factor correction.
I know how electricity works.
I always compare and quote Karapiro power station which has three turbines which have to be synchronised with other power stations/dams on the Waikato river.
You mentioned solar. I doubt that rooftop PV solar can enter the grid. Fine for use within own property. PV solar does not have the capacity to push against a greater energy trying to exit the grid. Imagine yourself leaving your property on a bike or a car as a truck is attempting to drive onto your property. Truck wins.
Which raises the question how does anyone receive a feed in tariff. They cant.
I will not continue this discussion. I trust that you believe what you are saying and not simply attempting to wind me up.
I disagree with you.
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cunning5tuntsaid:
Brian said, “I have an electrical background. I suspect you were installing power factor correction.”
So not an Electrical Engineer as I assumed in my initial comment. And yes that is what I was installing and I was also installing line filters to remove harmonics caused by variable speed drives for large irrigation pumps. An Electrical back ground you say, sounds like you are a retired lines man.
Brian said, “You mentioned solar. I doubt that rooftop PV solar can enter the grid.”
It can’t but the energy it generates can through a grid tie inverter. Clearly you have been out of the game a long time.
Brian said, “I will not continue this discussion. I trust that you believe what you are saying and not simply attempting to wind me up.
I disagree with you.”
Disagree all you want but if I see you spreading nonsense again I will certainly pull you up on it and challenge you.
Enjoy the rest of your retirement.
Seymour talks about accountability. It is the politicians that have got us into this mess with nil accountability.
Seymour has a degree in Electrical Engineering. It has been pointed out to him that wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy. He will not engage, he will not make himself accountable. A dead loss.
“wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy.”
Neither do hydro-turbines, that is why we have inverters, voltage regulators and power factor correction capacitor banks.
“Seymour has a degree in Electrical Engineering”
Clearly you don’t and have no idea what you are talking about.
Clearly you don’t and have no idea what you are talking about.
Very poor use of the English language.
Hydro power house/turbines do not have inverters though they do have governors.
You clearly do not know how electricity is generated nor how supply meets demand.
The NZ grid is synchronous. Wind turbines are asynchronous.
We can expect serious blackouts ahead, especially through the lower North Island, maybe as early as next winter.
I stand by my statement, wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy.
After 28 blackouts Mexico tracked the problem to wind farms. Mexico has shut down their wind turbines. A French company offered to build a wind farm in the Gulf. Mexico responded, do what you like, you will not be connecting them to our grid.
Wind turbines produce useless harmonics termed in the industry as dirty energy. They can’t boil a jug.
I will assume from that comment that your English grammar and comprehension is always perfect. I highly doubt it. I could go and search for such examples but then I would just be a petty hypocrite like yourself.
By what chance? I found a clear example in your response which also proves you do not understand what you are talking about.
“I stand by my statement, wind turbines do not produce the essential and legally required 50 hertz energy.”
50 Hertz or 50Hz is mains frequency, the nominal frequency of the oscillations of an alternating current (AC). It is in no way a measure of energy.
I’m not a fan of wind turbines or Seymour, but a generator is a generator, by what means the shaft of that generator is rotated makes little difference. A generator rotating at 3600 rpm powered by a diesel engine, steam turbine, hydro turbine or wind turbine will produce the same kVA and frequency when connected to a load.
You are correct, it is irrelevant whether a turbine is driven by hydro or steam. You do state an RPM of 3600, American?
That is the very point a generator is required by law to rotate at a fixed speed and to within 0.1% of that speed.
When the load increases eg when a city rises for work and switches on jugs and toasters for breakfast – and a fan heater during the winter – the increased load has the effect of slowing the turbine. The operator must open the sluice gate or increase the steam to maintain the exact speed.
Operating an electricity grid is an exact science and it has been said that the electric grid systems of the world are the most complicated thing man has made.
A wind turbine operates at all sorts of speeds according to the whim of nature, producing all sorts of harmonics none of which are 50Hz. (60Hz USA.) They produce useless dirty energy and are messing up the grid.
The next aspect to consider is that all power stations on a grid have to produce the same 50Hz at the exact same time thus the term Synchronous grid. A wind turbine is Asynchronous.
Now we see why Mexico shut down the wind farms, they don’t work.
You are still wrong Brian. I suspect you watched a couple of videos and believed all you heard and saw. The same issues that are presented with a hydro power station is also present for wind turbines. Do you seriously think it is possible to just slow or stop thousands of litres of water running down a penstock? If the disconnect the generator from the turbine the turbine over speeds and destroys itself. Disconnect the generator from the grid and the same will happen and the generator winding insulation will breakdown and the generator also destroyed. So power stations have more than one generator running. They have them running at different speeds to control output when the grid is loaded or unloaded. (They can also use excess generation to pump water back up into the reservoir.) So the same is possible with wind turbines and as there are generally more in a network it is easier to control loading vs generation. The issue above is the main reason why they use gas and coal fire powered stations at peak times to meet maximum demand.
In the most typical design of a wind turbine the blades are attached to an axle that runs into a gearbox. The gearbox, or transmission, steps up the speed of the rotation, from about 50 rpm up to 1,800 rpm. The faster spinning shaft spins inside the generator, producing AC electricity. Electricity must be produced at just the right frequency and voltage to be compatible with a utility grid. Since the wind speed varies, the speed of the generator could vary, producing fluctuations in the electricity. One solution to this problem is to have constant speed turbines, where the blades adjust, by turning slightly to the side, to slow down when wind speeds gust. Another solution is to use variable-speed turbines, where the blades and generator change speeds with the wind, and sophisticated power controls fix the fluctuations of the electrical output. A third approach is to use low-speed generators. Germany’s Enercon turbines have a direct drive that skips the step-up gearbox. An advantage that variable-speed turbines have over constant-speed turbines is that they can operate in a wider range of wind speeds.
Networks use Auto Under Frequency Load Shedding to control network frequency. The need has become greater for the ability to load shed effectively due to ever increasing demands for electricity at peak periods and energy saving devices during off peak periods. It has also become more difficult due domestic solar installations with grid tie systems. Sudden loss of sun equals a sudden drop in output, only really an issue when it is one large bank of cloud moving in, not when it is broken up cloud moving through.
It used to be in NZ that we relied on controlled street lighting and domestic water heating for load shedding. Now on certain networks they have certain industries that work with the network to switch on loads for shedding purposes.
Harmonics are easily controlled at point of generation and where that energy is consumed. I used to install load correction capacitor banks and filters in Canterbury factories and dairy pump sheds when Electricty Ashburton set out certain requirements for consumers regarding harmonics production on their networks. My night school tutors worked for the Network and one was a harmonics specialist.
I have an electrical background. I suspect you were installing power factor correction.
I know how electricity works.
I always compare and quote Karapiro power station which has three turbines which have to be synchronised with other power stations/dams on the Waikato river.
You mentioned solar. I doubt that rooftop PV solar can enter the grid. Fine for use within own property. PV solar does not have the capacity to push against a greater energy trying to exit the grid. Imagine yourself leaving your property on a bike or a car as a truck is attempting to drive onto your property. Truck wins.
Which raises the question how does anyone receive a feed in tariff. They cant.
I will not continue this discussion. I trust that you believe what you are saying and not simply attempting to wind me up.
I disagree with you.
Brian said, “I have an electrical background. I suspect you were installing power factor correction.”
So not an Electrical Engineer as I assumed in my initial comment. And yes that is what I was installing and I was also installing line filters to remove harmonics caused by variable speed drives for large irrigation pumps. An Electrical back ground you say, sounds like you are a retired lines man.
Brian said, “You mentioned solar. I doubt that rooftop PV solar can enter the grid.”
It can’t but the energy it generates can through a grid tie inverter. Clearly you have been out of the game a long time.
Brian said, “I will not continue this discussion. I trust that you believe what you are saying and not simply attempting to wind me up.
I disagree with you.”
Disagree all you want but if I see you spreading nonsense again I will certainly pull you up on it and challenge you.
Enjoy the rest of your retirement.